(no subject)

[sleepymaggie]

There are few things that make me as upset as when someone male/masculine sees me work on something and takes it away from me. Specifically I mean when they say, "here let me do that" and then muscle in.

I don't know why so many of you do it, but here's the warning: I am hitting the next one of you that does.

I am perfectly capable of turning a screwdriver. Yes, I can carry that. No, you don't need to set up the printer/whatever for me.

I am also perfectly capable of asking for help when I can't do something. Hey tall guy, could you reach that for me? Yup, this is way too heavy for me to lift, would you mind taking the other side?

So be forewarned.

Comments

[jasminewind.livejournal.com]

I feel the same way.

[redbouncytigger.livejournal.com]

ditto!

i usually just obnoxiously muscle back. although when i was sick and the doctors said i couldnt move stuff, it was ackward, because i had to allow everyone to muscle in, and they had no problem because they normally try to muscle me out. i thought, "shouldn't it at least be an issue?" "hey, laura grab that end... oh no you can't..."

although it is helpful that i never have to worry about having a flat tire. ;]

i think this only applies to small women, or feminine women, or small feminine women. if you look like a "dyke" you arent getting help, even if you need it.

when i was a plumber this was particularly onerous, people would come up to me and say, "oh dont do that. let the plumber do that". and i would say, "i
-am- the plumber." and they would look shocked and say, "oh".

[hypatia42.livejournal.com]

As a 5"10" very capable woman who still has to deal with this obnoxious issue, I have to disagree that is has something to do with small stature.

My very worst pet peeve when dealing with this is auto or gardware store clerks who will tell the man with me the answer to the question that *I* just asked as though "He's going to be doing it anyway." ARGH! Fully capable of changing a tire, battery, alternator, light fixture, ceiling fan, etc.

Agreed. Irritating. Can take care of myself. Thanks.

[redbouncytigger.livejournal.com]

in my case its even more extreme. i am the physical one, the plumbers daughter. my husband is effeminate and hates hard work. ;] i am 5' tall.

the neighbors just asked why my husband wasnt out helping shovel snow. i said "in our house its a little different." ;] it was me and his 74 year old mother shoveling. but thats how our house rolls, and i am happy about it. no competition, no weirdness.

the weirdest thing is when i go in to talk to the auto guys alone, and after they are done helping me, if i mention i have a husband, then they get angry. "why isnt he here doing this?" i dont know why they feel like i cheated them or something.

[hypatia42.livejournal.com]

Every once in a while I give up on equality and pull out the helpless female routine. Gets me much farther much faster in lots of situations. Ex: I got a $75 job of reprogramming my keyless entry done free at the dealership and handed a business card, "And if there's anything else we can help you with ma'am please don't hesitate to call us."

[virginhuntress.livejournal.com]

I think you should try to be a little less hard on them. For most guys, they're not trying to be demeaning or insulting. A lot of guys I know (hell, my brother included, and he's only 13) are still taught buy their parents (especially their mothers) to help a woman because it's polite.

It's kind of... a cultural thing, I think, too. For a lot of people, it's the way to raise a boy properly to have him use his advantage in height, muscle stature and weight to help out those of us who are smaller by nature.

Perhaps just telling them that it bothers you instead? Just say "You know, it's nice that you want to help me, but I'd rather do it myself unless I ask for help". This way you avoid any kind of hurt feelings when at work (which can lead to really unnecessary levels of weirdness at work).

[sleepymaggie.livejournal.com]

There are two reasons why I don't agree with this:

1) I *have* told them. It's to the point where I'm beyond avoiding hurt feelings. I work in a field where I have to do technical stuff and lift stuff everyday. It's getting in the way of my work.

and

2) I don't buy the fact that it's "just the way they were raised." There are a lot of other social issues that could fall into this category, racism and sexism being the first that jump to mind. If I can expect people to avoid being overtly racist in my presence I think they can also avoid taking the screwdriver out of my hand.

I think I find this fundamentally aggravating because they're putting themselves (even for the best of reasons) into my space without my permission. For all that they think they're helping, they're also sending the message that I'm not capable of doing what they're capable of doing. I require their assistance to get this task done. Even with the best of intentions it's still demeaning.

[redbouncytigger.livejournal.com]

agreed! its annoying because we -have- been telling some of them, over and over, and it isnt getting through. and i find a lot of guys get angry, like "you can't really do that". i've been told things like "you didnt drive that diesel boxtruck cross country" and "you didnt really lift that, did you?" i even find it annoying when they compliment me for being able to pick up something only mildly heavy.

i understand that there is an element of chivalry but agreed, if thats what it really is, then they should be able to get past it and respect that its demeaning.

[dreamingkat.livejournal.com]

oh yeah, it's so much more reassuring that they tell you that you must be incompetent or inferior without thinking about it - because how could you possibly be anything else when you look like that?

/sarcasm

Mgg:
As a computer geek, the only way I've ever found effective is to push back.

Generally, these boys won't let themselves get into a position with their arms around me - so if they push me off the keyboard, I duck under the arm that's closest and retake it.

It also seems to have helped a little that I got into the habit of opening doors for them - even when their hands aren't full; I'll even speed up a little to do so. That way, it not only ends up being more equitable overall, but they experience the difference between having help with the door when their hands are full and when they don't need help. They get used to it too. :D

If they're carrying something heavy - even if they're not struggling with it, I don't ask, I just go take the other end. I don't take it completely away from them however, even if I *can* do it myself. Counter-intuitively, this seems to cut down on the unneeded assistance attempts from them.

I've learned sarcasm doesn't work well - unless it's as obvious as "I'll just take off my shoes and go back into the kitchen now" they just don't pick up on it.

I can manage to be "just as boy" as them most of the time on social issues - I'll make sure that I curse like a sailor for the first few weeks, and check out chicks, and tell/laugh at dirty jokes. This may not work for everyone, depending on personality.

I will also occasionally remember to try redirection: "dude, don't you have that other thing to be working on? I've totally got this".

I usually attempt verbal aggression before physical aggression - announcing loudly that I'm going to shove the screwdriver up the ass of the next person who attempts to take it away from me tends to go farther than actually elbowing someone for doing it. In that the announcement will be remembered and passed on as something funny that will have about a 30% reduction in screwdriver snatching overall, while in the latter case, only the guy being elbowed remembers not to take the screwdriver again.

My coworker jason suggests radioactive bees may be applied to solve the problem, although has decided that it may be a better idea for continued employment to get a picture of a squeeky wrench with the business end covered in green and red bees, captioned with "Do I gotta smack a beeotch?"

Hopefully some of this was at least a little helpful. : /

Maybe our grand-daughters won't have to put up with this shit...